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Written by Laura

Laura Is a seasoned marketer, brand, and communications manager. Passionate about strategic communications, copy, and customer experience.

September 13, 2023

Sabine:

I first had the pleasure of meeting Allison several years ago at their UK office. When Seuss+ was still relatively new and eager to revolutionize how sponsors engage with vendors, we were pitching our ideas to Allison and her team, and to our delight, she gave us a chance. I can’t thank her enough for that opportunity. Supporting and giving chances is just one example of what makes Allison such an exceptional leader.

Alison’s journey in the field of life sciences began when she qualified as an MD. She dedicated her time to practicing medicine, specializing in oncology. She worked at esteemed institutions such as the Royal Marsden in London.

She eventually transitioned into the life science industry, primarily focusing on research and development. Throughout her career, she has held various senior roles, including the position of medical director for Wyeth and has collaborated with pharmaceutical companies like Roche, AstraZeneca, Novartis, BMS, and J&J, serving as a medical director and consultant.

With over three decades of experience under her belt, Alison is in her 10th year as CEO of Avillion where she has led great successes, including deals with Pfizer, Merck, and AstraZeneca. Avilion is a boutique life science investment firm known for the unique business model centered around co-developing and financing late-stage pharmaceutical development projects.

Historically, Avilion has invested in post-proof-of-concept co-development deals, ranging from $50 million to $250 million, taking on all the clinical and regulatory risks associated with getting final approval. Currently, the company is diversifying into the early phases of development and providing consulting services.

Allison’s influence extends far beyond Avillion as she serves on the board of directors of Ingenis and Inavion and holds the position of non-executive chair of Oxonics. Additionally, she’s a senior advisor to Blackstone Life Sciences, a true testament to her experience and reputation in the industry. Allison’s journey from practicing medicine to becoming a CEO in the life science investment sector showcases her unwavering commitment to advancing healthcare and innovation. Her visionary leadership continues to leave a lasting impact and inspire others in their professional pursuits.

Today we embark on an insightful journey to explore the strategies employed by Allison and learn from her experiences. There are many challenges which biotechs deal with. Our quest today leads us to tackle four hurdles that biotech companies encounter in their pursuit of innovation and life-changing breakthroughs.

Allison, welcome. It is such a treat to have you on Cut the Chat today.

Allison:
Thank you, Sabine. I’m delighted to be here. Great to have the conversation today as we focus on, as you say, some of the challenges that biotech are facing. As I reflect on your very kind words, I think the last 10 years have really showed me that with a great team behind you, you really can help accelerate, bring medicines to patients. And that really has been very much my ethos as well as the culture within Ovidian. And I know we’re gonna explore that more as we go into the questions now.

Sabine:
And that we are. So let’s dive straight in and we’ll start with the first question that I have for you today. So we’ve had we’ve had several discussions around this, and one of the topics that has come up is around the critical challenges that biotechs face in maintaining a diverse portfolio. It’s this balance of striking between having putting all your eggs in one basket and avoiding risk. So and this can happen. We do see it often. with founders who are very embedded and dedicated to one therapeutic area or illness. So what it’d be interested to learn about is what strategies and approaches have you seen that are effective at Avilion and for some of the other companies that you have set on the board to address this one compound asset challenge that many companies face.

Allison:
No, thanks for being a great question. Diverse portfolio is certainly where you’d want to be as a biotech, but let’s be honest, it isn’t always possible when we consider particularly the financial position, particularly for a startup. So platform technology is always creates more value. And I think that’s important to think through as we think through a number of the reasons why. Firstly, a platform technology, more shots on goal. I’ll come back to that. Easier to attract. the best candidates in a pretty vibrant life science market, and also retain that team. And as we know, success here isn’t always just based on the asset itself, but also the team that are actually delivering that clinical development program. Also, I think one of the other reasons why trying to get a diverse portfolio is of benefit is the investor perspective. So when we as Villian are looking at biotechs to partner with, we certainly consider that counterparty risk. And obviously, if there’s only one asset and one indication, it’s very, very much a binary outcome. I think one of the things that we think a billion can bring is not only the finances to kind of assist the biotech, but also the team. One, this means that you’ve got more people working on a result, but actually what’s most important is you do not have to distract the biotech team from delivering on their one focused area. but it allows you with that additional funding to have more shots on goal, which actually is a better value proposition. Whether you’re looking at the patient, ultimately outcome in terms of approvals, whether you’re looking at the investor perspective, or also if you’re looking at what is that exit strategy for a biotech. Are they looking to partner with a big pharma? Are they looking to IPO? And all of these areas of actually having more clinical development programs running in parallel creates that value proposition. So those are some of the things that we try and assist and work with Biotech to kind of create, very much a hybrid solution where we’re working alongside Biotech as their partner.

Sabine:
Yeah. Allison, it’s interesting because Avillion definitely doesn’t have this issue, do they? Because you do have a very diverse portfolio group. And I mentioned in my introduction that you’ve worked with Merck and Pfizer and AstraZeneca on some programs. And it’d be interesting to learn what are some of the challenges, for instance. I know that you had a real, that the AstraZeneca project was massive. And I can imagine that there are, well, with all of them, but with this one in particular, there are some challenges around that. Could you share some of the challenges and potentially how you dealt with those within the.

Allison:
Yes, of course. I mean, I think every clinical program has challenges. I mean, we wouldn’t all be spending the hours we

Sabine:
Yep.

Allison:
let’s be honest, doing clinical research if it was easy, we’d all have the afternoons off. But I think particularly, I think, you know, if you talk about the AstraZeneca project that we’ve been running in parallel with them, which resulted in a super as approval in January this year with the FDA, that was particularly challenging because as super is actually focused in the asthma space and we had literally kicked off. all of the pivotal programs in phase three as COVID hit. Now, obviously COVID had many challenges across all of our individual lives, as well as our work lives and professional lives. But if you can imagine trying to recruit 5,000 patients in asthma across a respiratory portfolio for the FDA, and then COVID respiratory pandemic hits. I mean, they were a set of challenges that I don’t think I have ever thought I would face in my career. and certainly made us really think outside the box in every way. I mean, firstly, the team suddenly were all working remotely. I mean, we have a hybrid model anyway, but suddenly everyone was remote. Then we had issues in terms of, you know, how do you get drugs to individual patients across the globe? How do you ensure the patients stay on treatment? And then obviously you needed to monitor the data. All of those things were incredible challenges. On top of the main endpoint here in a respiratory program, was spirometry. And at that point, the American Thoracic Society had told us we couldn’t even use spirometry because obviously the risk to a patient of going to hospitals have spirometry.

Sabine:
sure.

Allison:
So there was a time, a very short period, as short as possible, where we had to put the recruitment on hold, but ensuring that patients continued obviously to get their drug, because that was really important in terms of managing the asthma risk. But then really what we did was keep a very, very close eye across the globe in the countries we were recruiting. to see what country was coming out of lockdown so we could actually get the CRA on board, get the investigator discussion ongoing and really make sure we were appropriately managing the quality of that data being very critical to any programme and also ensuring that we had very few missed visits. And I think off the top of my head, I want to say something like out of all of the 5,000 patients, we had something like 0.14% of missed visits across that entire. studies.


So it really does show that when you really have to, you can think out the box, but it’s certainly been the biggest challenge that I’ve faced to date in my career.

Sabine:


Definitely sounds like a significant one. And it’s interesting because that kind of leads to this next topic because without a strong team behind you, you can forget about those kinds of successes, right? And I think one of the challenges that we all face is specifically coming out of COVID. And what we’re seeing today is attracting and retaining top talent is definitely a challenge and potentially also for smaller organizations. So it’s essential. that companies sustain growth and success in the competitive industry. And how does Avilion tackle these challenges of attracting and retaining talent in the biotech industry because it is very competitive. And it’d be great if you could share some of the strategies that you employ to foster loyalty, to create conductive work environment and what really keeps people, valuable people within the organization engaged and motivated.

Allison:
Yeah, Sabine, we really do believe that the people piece of Avillion is probably our USP. We realize there are other companies out there that provide funding, but really we do believe that it’s actually the team that provides, if you like, our success story. And actually we’ve had very, very little turnover. And I do believe that truly is around the culture and the fact that we do invest in each and every employee. And I believe that’s paramount to success. In our 10 years, you know, with 100% success, it hasn’t just been about the diligence of the asset that has caused us to be successful. If you kind of just go back to that AstraZeneca example, it’s really, you know, wherever people were based, whether they were suddenly dealing with, you know, children, school children at home, they’re having to be a parent, a school parent,

Sabine:
Yes.

Allison:
All of those other things, and yet really still focusing on delivering here. I think actually we have created a culture that where we describe Avalion as one big family. And that’s really what I would like to think we still are. And I think that culture piece, and we do really reflect quite often on the values, is really important to remember, even when we all sort of scale up. And the other piece that I think I try and bring to the whole company is that every single person in this organization matters. You don’t have to be the CEO. You don’t have to be sitting in a C-suite. But with all the other support functions, as well as clinical development and quality and finance and regulatory and anyone else that I’ve forgotten to mention today, you know, all of those people are absolutely critical, you know, clinical supplies, my PA, I probably wouldn’t be interacting with you if I hadn’t been reminded the time was now. You know, that’s the sort of thing I’m saying everybody’s role is absolutely critical. And, you know, the sum is greater than the parts. And that’s the truth of it. It’s a very synergistic. perspective that we have within a billion. I mean, you sort of talked about, you know, what have been the learnings and, and I think for me, as I reflect, you sometimes learn more from mistakes in life, they always say, than the success. And, you know, I had to take this on board that post-COVID, we all sort of went back to work and thought, okay, you know, business is normal as much as you can. But actually I went across and met with our US team, gathered everyone, got them in Riley. And actually, I was pretty shocked that they were quite negative about our organisation and the culture. And I was

Sabine:
Okay.

Allison:
shocked because I reflect in a minute of everything that we’d done for them during Covid. And, you know, I thought we were a great family. And actually, what they sort of said was that was perfect. But suddenly, if you like, we were out of lockdown. It was business as usual. And I think people within the US organisation had felt that we’d really reverted to becoming quite UK centric. For example, all of the… company calls, I would lead out of the London office, things like that. And sometimes I think perception is as important as reality. And so one of the things that I did was I very much took on board the feedback they gave me. Actually, I was shocked, appalled. I actually took it on board. We had more C-suite, more senior people, regularly engaging, going out to Riley, bringing the team together, and really making sure that they felt part of the overall organization. And I think that’s particularly important when you have more remote based individuals. You know, with people coming into the London office, the hub, we’re interacting with each other around, you know, the coffee, etc, But for these people who are working at home in a quite isolated environment, I think it’s additionally key and critical that we actually they see us, they actually see us not just on a Zoom, but we are actually in the room, spending time flying across and actually interacting with them. So for me, that was a really important lesson. And I think the other really important lesson has been, we obviously do get a few leavers. And I make sure I don’t just hear from their direct line manager why the person’s left. I actually arrange to have a one-to-one with them.


And again, there’s always something that I learned from that. I mean, just an example, in a small company, I’m sure you’re familiar with this, sometimes there’s just one person in one discipline doing one function. Which

Sabine:
Absolutely.

Allison:
is fine, of course, right? It’s fine if we’re in Europe or, you know, we’re all in the same time zone. But as this person rightly said to me, we’re a global organization. And if you’re all reaching out on the 24 seven and you’re not in a C-suite role, and actually even sometimes in a C-suite role, as I know, that becomes quite burdensome. But maybe there’s an expectation as you go off of an organization that you accept some of that. But, you know, in different roles at different levels. That’s a pretty tough task day in, day out. And so for me, there’ve been some real learnings as I’ve talked to people about either why they’re moving on or just speaking to people in our new work environment, which I think has changed people’s, not values, I don’t think people’s values have changed since post-COVID, but I think in terms of that work-life balance and how we work through some of those things has become really, really critical. I mean, the other thing that we have done actually is we’ve used a company actually called TenCents and it’s a sort of sense making tool. It’s a diagnostic and it’s an totally anonymous feedback goes into a software diagnostic tool and it looks at four areas of the company. So it looks at your performance energy, your culture, climate, your motivation and your team attributes. And that is totally shared, as I say, anonymously. with everyone in the organization. And we’ve used that as a tool at company meetings and in smaller groups to kind of say, we shouldn’t rest on our laurels even when things are great. There’s always areas where you can think, well, maybe I should be concerned. Maybe people are under too much pressure here, or maybe they don’t feel they can challenge. And I find those sort of, you know, sense check tools, occasional just pulse check with an organization incredibly helpful. So we’ve done all of that as well as obviously, I hope rewarded people in the appropriate way and, you know, company meetings. During lockdown, we had sessions, remote sessions in Pilates and nutritional health and meditation, which I was terrible at. But, you know, we had all of those things and we mentored and we budded people up with an open door policy, which I think was also incredibly important.

Sabine:
There are a lot of learnings in that. Incredible. And I think one of the things that sticks out for me from your response is information can be diluted when it comes up. And what gets to you may not be exactly what is actually happening within the organization. So I think that’s a great point that you raise that you take the time to do the exit interviews with employees. I think that’s incredible because then you get a clear feedback. And also have those conversations with people. you know, having you in the office and people want the opportunity to shine. And that gives them the opportunity to do that when you spend time there. And I love the 10 cent thing. Definitely going to look at that up. Do you do that regularly? Is it several times throughout the year?

Allison:
Yeah, I mean, we’ve done it when we feel there’s a need, but we always have a sense check within the year.

Sabine:
Mmm.

Allison:
But I think particularly the sort of lockdown, out of lockdown and then more regular checks has been really valuable. And it literally takes five minutes. It’s not a McKinsey’s review. It’s literally

Sabine:
Yeah, right.

Allison:
a quick

Sabine:
Yeah, it’s

Allison:
look.

Sabine:
a 10 cent quick one.

Allison:
Yeah, yeah.

Sabine:
Oh, great. I love that. Thanks for sharing that. So people, very, very important. Obviously, we are heavily regulated, very, very regulated, to say the least. And and this is really a non-negotiable in the industry that we’re in. And We, in one of our previous conversations, we were talking about all the pieces and what are so important for companies. And one of the pieces that came up is this data integrity and always to stay diligent and inspection ready. And we’re really interested to hear how Avilion does that and how do you keep the pulse to make sure that the data is well-prepared, that you’re ready for any potential inspections and deal with kind of these regulatory compliance issues that we see every day in our industry.

Allison:
I mean, yes, Sabine, it’s absolutely critical. I think whenever I’m sort of speaking to new potential partners, I always say again, that very much the Avilion motto is around speed linked to quality, and one without the other is absolutely useless. So I think absolutely, and when I reflect on the AstraZeneca piece, it was really about keeping the quality of that data, despite all the challenges that we had with lockdowns, et cetera. But I think we also really step in and work alongside the CROs and the CRAs because within our model, we have a global team of clinical trial liaison managers. And really, their role is very much from day one to ensure that our sites are inspection ready. Because let’s be honest, again, FDA can order anywhere. And I want to make sure that our reputation stays in terms of the quality of the data and the output. I mean, when I reflect that. such a small team did an NDA submission for the FDA with their super with AstraZeneca, we obviously get the quality piece right. But it’s a big piece of our organization. And to be honest, whether it’s an SOP coming out or whether it’s a review of an audit plan, I’m always the first one who engages in it because I absolutely from my background as well, believe that quality is a critical piece of any organization. So with that in mind, as I say, we obviously do our own audits across our sites, as you’d expect. We engage in, obviously, closure of CAPA plans with the CROs and timely completion of CAPA plans. And as soon as there’s any finding, one of the things we absolutely do is just to do a sense check again that there’s no systemic issues. So if there is a finding at a site, we obviously make sure it’s not going to be more than one finding, et cetera. So yes, regularly, regularly review audit schedules. I review with our VP of Quality Assurance all of our audit schedules every month. And I would say it’s very, very high on our agenda. And I said, with that in mind, you have to kind of look at the outputs of the partnerships that we’ve had, whether that’s with AstraZeneca, with Merck, or indeed with Pfizer. All of those are in peer-reviewed journals from the New England Journal through to the Lancet, JCO, And that again, just reflects on the quality. But I think to your point, it’s harder and harder for CROs with the turnover of staff, particularly in that CRA space. And I think that’s again, where the ability model of providing that additional oversight and support to the sites is absolutely critical. Because I think with everything that, you know, investigators are having to do now in the clinical research environment. particularly as we move into different technologies they’re having to embrace, the challenges, since COVID actually, of more and more patients coming through the system. I think everything that we can do to try and support them, I think is really, really critical if we want clinical trials to continue to deliver and patients to be enrolled on them.

Sabine:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think to support them with consistency, right? To your point, to try to get the same staff there over and over again, they feel comfortable with it. These relationships, I don’t think, I feel cannot be underestimated, especially with the sites. Yeah, some really, really good point. So now we’re gonna take a bit of a jump because we talked about regulatory. Now we’re gonna talk about digital innovation. Hot topic, sexy, everybody’s talking about it and it really is reshaping the industry, isn’t it? And many larger organizations have departments just for digital innovation. They have budgets for this. Smaller companies can potentially have some issues around this. So I thought it’d be interesting to dive into this topic just a bit more about what is the actual impact of AI and digital innovation in the industry and specifically for biotechs. And there’s a lot out there and curious to hear as how does Avilion actually keep up to date with these new innovations because we feel like you were just being bombarded with things daily and to sift through all of that. So how does your team look at all the new innovations that are there and determine what could be relevant for your projects, for your teams moving forward?

Allison:
Yeah, thanks Sabine. I mean, I think this is an area where we’re all continuing to learn. And, you know, the truth is, we won’t know every innovation there is out there. I think right now we’re running a decentralised clinical trial for one of our partners. And that’s probably, again, been incredibly challenging, new challenges that we never thought we would come up against, you know, in terms of new technologies, whether it’s The additional work of set up for sites again, just following through from the last point, I suppose. The additional time it takes a site actually running a DCT. How do you keep patients interested in your study if it’s much more remote? So how do you keep that connection? In some ways, the data should be better than remembering from a diary card because you’re automatically collecting it as you go. But how do you make sure? absolutely you’ve got the safety of the patient you’re considering and the quality. And I think those are all things that we’re wrestling with and some of the AI tools that have come out, you know, that actually will they be accepted by the regulators? I mean, I think it’s interesting when I was looking ahead of us speaking today that I think what the first DCT study was run by Pfizer and was it 2011? And today there’s still less than 5% of all studies that are being run as And actually, some therapy areas have embraced this more than others, I think particularly CNS and metabolic and endocrine. But if you look at areas such as oncology, it’s minuscule. And yet, obviously, there are masses of oncology clinical trials ongoing. And it’s interesting to think why. And I think some of the things that have been considered as reasons around that is the time it takes for the investigators. Although it seems that the academic world or academia is embracing DCT a bit more than pharma and biotech.

Sabine:
true.

Allison:
And one of the issues around that has been concern, I think, around the regulators always. Do I wanna be the first person to put my head above the parapet?

Sabine:
Mm-hmm.

Allison:
Maybe it’s safe to just keep doing what I’ve always done. And also the increase in time and costs to set up DCT in the first place. And I think that’s something that we as a villain hadn’t necessarily appreciated. And still we started embarking on recruiting 2000 patients in the DCT. And again, I’ve just realized even in terms of, you know, delivery, it’s not like getting your Amazon delivery of, you know, your favorite pair of shoes or trainers or sneakers to the house. It’s quite more complex, right? I mean, how do you ensure that

Sabine:
Absolutely.

Allison
you’ve got delivery, et cetera? So I think there are many challenges, but I do think we need to learn to embrace it and we need to be smarter as an industry and not always just do what we’ve always done. And in fact, it’s been fascinating me. I’ve been talking recently to some of the AI companies in this space, you know, in terms of particularly, say rare diseases, how can we use AI tools to really go through masses of phenotype data and actually come and analyze and find the patients we need for rare disease. That’s going to be a lot better than anyone trolling through masses of notes, let’s be honest. So I think some of the AI tools do make sense. I mean, recently we were talking about this, you know, there was the Swedish study around mammograms that I think showed that actually it

Sabine:
Right,

Allison:
significantly

Sabine:
yeah.

Allison:
reduced the time and workload on radiographers when we’ve got a shortage of radiographers. And I think it was something like it detected another 20% of cancers. So there’s those sort of areas, pathology. So I think there’s some areas where we really need to continue to delve into this. But I think where you started from as a small company, it’s harder. It is harder because we haven’t got a whole team that have got, you know, 20 FTE

Sabine:
Mm-hmm.

Allison:
permanently looking to see how are things evolving. So I think it’s really, you know, attending the right conferences, you know, networking and just trying to be smarter where there’s challenges. I hope that we won’t all get replaced by a chat GBT, I really hope so. I really hope so. But I do think we do need to be embracing this because when I saw that it’s still under 5% and way under with Pharma Studies and Biotech Studies, I think there’s a long way to go, really. When you think of how the rest of our worlds have changed with social media, etc. The fact we are having this conversation today as a podcast. you would think if we can manage to communicate in this way, in this arena, then we should be able to do that in a clinical trial space.

Sabine:
Yes, absolutely. And you’re right. We certainly don’t want to be taken over with the chat, gbt, but there’s so much out there and there’s so much available that can actually, that can have huge benefits to pace patients. If you look at ECOA, if you look at wearables, if you look at, there’s an incredible amount of technology out there that’s going to make life easier. And I think, you know, we touched on COVID earlier. There were so many steps that were taken during COVID that I hope again, that we can continue to take that progress and move forward and don’t necessarily fall back into while we did that. So let’s just fall back into what we used to do. Yeah, it’s very easy to do, isn’t it? Those old habits that we have. So, Alison, thank you. I think, you know, some of the pieces that really stuck with me in the conversation were around striking the right balance, you know, risks and balances and diversifying your portfolio and what’s gonna work best for the organization. And the bottom line is your staff, you know, these are the most important people. And I think so many companies kind of have this tagline, you know, it’s always about our people. But thanks for sharing some of the ideas of what you do for the… you do within a Ville on because I think that could be very helpful for other organizations to tap into and continue to grow their culture and work on how the organization communicates with each other because that’s very key and that can easily can go awry, especially if you’re working remote and far away from each other. And data integrity and compliance, you know, you listed several points that are just so key there and some steps that you’ve taken to really, and I think you said being inspection ready from day one. That’s a nice mantra to have, and I think one that a lot of companies could use as well. And also I know that Avilion, also from experience, that you have a very robust governance structure, and you really rely on that within the organization to be practical and functional, which is I think very key. Not just there, but everyone has a function, and everyone has a key piece in that structure. And we’re in the digital innovation piece. There’s a lot out there. Keep your eyes open and talk. I think that that’s so important is just to share new ideas and don’t hold onto things. To your point, I think sometimes we get new ideas and we see things and we think, oh, we need to hold these close because it’s gonna make us stronger. But I think it’s so important, exactly like our conversation today, to share experiences and learnings because we’re all in this industry to treat patients. And if another company can also… be smart and learn that some of the best things that we can do. So thank you for sharing those topics and your experiences.

Allison:
No, it’s been great Sabine, I’ve really welcomed the discussion.

Sabine:
Okay, but I do have to ask one more question. I hope it’s okay. We can cut it out if you don’t want to. So it was a lovely conversation, but I found a little bird, I found out something about you and I just find it super fascinating. And that I understand that you actually used to live on a farm and in a state of Fifi and bred Highland cattle. And… What in the world inspired you to do that? If you could just share a couple of sentences about that, I find that fascinating.

Allison:
Yes, Sabine, I wondered what you were going to say that you discovered. There’s

Sabine:
Hahahaha!

Allison:
always a moment of trepidation, right? But I feel it’s okay. This can be public domain, so

Sabine:
I’m sorry.

Allison:
that’s absolutely fine. Yeah, I mean, when I had my son, we decided we were going to have a change of lifestyle. And although I don’t sound it, my roots are actually in Scotland. And so we moved to a 14th century castle in Fife and we had a hundred acres. And when we bought the estate, we inherited some Highland Cattle and it would have been rude not to keep them. So, you know, Highland Cattler, the big hairy kind of, they need to be for Scottish

Sabine:
Mm-hmm.

Allison:
winters. And then obviously, you know, nature is nature. So obviously we bred them, right? Because that’s what they do. So we had lots of little Highland Calfs, which were just incredible actually, and just wonderful. I mean, I think they call them sort of gentlemen farmers kind of pets, if you like, but.

Sabine:
Okay.

Allison:
lovely to look at, but I always remember one story from when I was doing my sort of 10 years consultancy before I joined Abillion and I had to say I was on a call with a big farmer and I said, I’m really sorry I have to go, I have to go and milk the calf

Sabine:
Hahahaha

Allison:
and you know the calf was needing two liters of milk which wasn’t really what they thought I was going off to do, so I always remember there were a few perplexed faces and no one ever asks me why I was going off a teleconference after It was a great way to live, wonderful, wonderful lifestyle.

Sabine:
Wow, that sounds like a wonderful time to live in. I love those cows. I’ve been to Scotland a couple of times and always just love them. They’re gorgeous. So wonderful, Alison. Thank you for sharing that story as well. It’s been a real delight to speak to you. Thank you for sharing and being so open and talking. What I’ve really valued about this conversation is that we talk about, you know, it’s easy to talk about the highs when things go well, but it’s difficult sometimes to share challenges that we face. So really thank you. for also sharing some of the difficulties and some of the challenges that you faced in your tender at Avillion. Thank you.

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